THE ABSOLUTE LAST 9/11 TRUTHER POST I WILL EVER MAKE
Well, the last post unless further evidence comes to light or there is some other rational reason for me to revisit the issue. Moving right along, I promised I would provide one commenter with responses to her responses to my questions on this post. My original questions are in italics, her responses in bold, and my comments on same are in normal type. Here we go! Whee!
1. Why 9/11, when a vastly simpler and far less risky false flag attack would have the same result?
Proving a negative is impossible – but I would say the “theater” of it all was the goal – a snuff film to be seen far and wide. The destruction of such phallic symbols – the public castration of America in plain view for all to see – not just destruction but public emasculation made it a psychological attack. Basically I’m saying for the very same reasons given to the 19 lone gunmen with box-cutters – humiliation of a people and a country.
Actually, proving negatives is at the core of the scientific method, not to mention accident/criminal investigations and numerous other endeavours in our civilization; it’s most definitely possible over a wide range of circumstances to prove a negative. Four backpack bombs in four major city transit systems would have had he same result, maybe even worse because the images of carnage would be so much more graphic. Israel has routinely used the most trivial terrorist attack to justify war and the suspension of violence, as have numerous other actors throughout history. The Tonkin Gulf Incident was so trivial that it begs belief to think a nation would go to war over it, yet Congress fell all over itself giving Johnson a blank check to do as he pleased. I’m not saying it couldn’t have been a plot, but I find it hard to believe that the putative planners of this event would come up with such a fantastically complicated plot when much lesser plots would achieve the same effect with far less risk of failure or detection. I should add as an aside, the breadth of this putative conspiracy has to be mind blowing, with conspirators exercising control over huge areas of America’s government, military, and media. Um, if your secret cabal already runs everything, why take this kind of chance?
2. Why WTC 7, a building no one had ever heard of.
I believe it had to do with what was inside the building – and is now destroyed and/or stolen. Others would know more.
OK. Didn’t want to spend a lot of time on this one, eh? The gentle reader took the trouble to email her responses, and this was one of them? And, um, saying that “the explosion destroyed the proof” is, well, internally consistent at least. Circular reasoning I believe is another term for it.
3. How, exactly, did they recruit people into this conspiracy?
Between compartmentalization, greed, fear and “following orders” I don’t believe it required the recruiting of too many people. And I imagine with time more whistle-blowers will emerge.
Well, it’s been a decade, and none of the people who were tricked into murdering thousands of their fellow citizens has come forward. If Nixon was around he sure would envy this crew. And, well, I admire your imagination. My question wasn’t really answered though. How, exactly, would one pitch a plot like this to get a response other than “Have you lost your mind?”
Well, the esteemed commenter added a codicil of her own, which for completeness sake I will repeat and comment on:
I didn’t give the truthers much thought until the financial crisis of 2008 – and in the process of researching that crisis and wondering how, as a self-proclaimed informed individual I could have missed such a mess, I came to the conclusion 9/11 was “an inside job” – i.e., I do not believe in the official version.
I am not capable of stating how it was done but Judy Wood’s theory is intriguing.
The hardest hurdle for me was the media complicity necessary but I now realize how vastly compromised the MSM is and how brainwashed and propagandized my fellow Americans are. It isn’t pretty but the dumbing down of America is a very real event.
I don’t believe the official version either. Governments routinely lie, although usually in relatively transparent and predictable ways. I also agree that the MSM is now a government/corporate shill, no argument there. And yes, the American population has been so propagandized and manipulated by media, government, and a failed politicized education system that critical thinking appears to be a lost art. Tens of millions of Americans passionately believe in stuff that is transcendentally absurd in any rational sense.
Me, I believe I’ll have another beer.
(The above image is claimed as Fair Use under US copyright law. It’s not being used for profit. Credit and copyright: Maniac World I chose it to illustrate the concept that things aren’t always they seem. Plus, it made my head hurt to look at, sort of how I felt after I looked at the Judy Wood web page. Please tell me it’s satire. Please?)
Doug's Darkworld 
With this:
“Me, I believe I’ll have another beer.”
You have just lost me.
I will not be following you any more.
jeff
January 31, 2012 at 8:20 am
I fail to see what was offensive about that, just trying to keep a debate light-hearted that frankly some people can take all to seriously. Oh well, can’t please everyone. — Doug
unitedcats
January 31, 2012 at 10:53 am
/me laughs at the flounce.
Pandionna
February 1, 2012 at 10:09 am
I question myself everyday – wondering if I’ve come to the right conclusions. The idea that a cabal exists and attempts to control everything and everyone is out there but then I don’t see such a group as any different from any other “old boy network” – just scaled up. Sometimes “old boy networks” conspire to screw others for their own gain – and sometimes they are successful.
Family of Secrets: Bush Family Dynasty – Russ Baker – This book goes a long way in describing multi-generational and interconnected family networks and has the foot-notes and citations to support his thesis.
He states that Nixon, LBJ and H.W. Bush were all in Dallas the day Kennedy was shot. It is those sorts of “regularly” occurring coincidences and anomalies that tell me there is more going on behind the curtain, 9/11 included.
I believe there was a Coup that day in Dallas and since then a well connected group of insiders have conspired to “manage” America (world?) for their own purposes – and sometimes they are successful.
Illusion and alchemy – is there a better way to describe the media? Trick and deceive, distract and mislead – evil exists – but it’s probably not where the magicians are pointing.
I believe “the failure of imagination” lies with the American people.
I have found Richard Andrew Grove’s web site to be helpful in fine tuning my thinking.
I will have to wait a few hours for my PBR.
dana
January 31, 2012 at 10:13 am
I think its all a big fuckaroo, and if there is some sort of conspiracy it is so lost in the bs that it will probably never come to light, and if someday absolute proof of some kind did come out, who would believe it now.
Pyrodin
January 31, 2012 at 10:18 am
I would largely agree with most of dana’s suppositions. Governments rarely act other than for the benefit of the rich and powerful, and there is no doubt a concentration of wealth and power in the USA like no one has ever seen before. A situation made infinitely worse by the growth of the “defence”industries after World War Two and easily traceable bank to the banking shenanigans of the early 20th century. I just don’t think it’s anywhere near a an overt conspiracy as many would have it, old boy network, IE family connections is more like it. And it’s mostly about corruption and greed, not ideology. And Pyrodin is right, it would take one heck of an exposé to bring it to light, I don’t see that happening. I try to be open minded, but it’s hard when debating with people who are absolutely convinced they have it figured out or that their evidence is irrefutable. So I’d rather not, which is why I stood by the sidelines regarding the debate (still going on) on my previous 9/11 Truther posts. —Doug
PS: Still not getting why jeff was miffed.
unitedcats
January 31, 2012 at 10:37 am
TPTB have a vested interest in an ignorant populace.
Rational thinking has been set aside for emotional reaction – beliefs and feelings are the basis for decisions, opinions and choices – to the detriment of logic and observations.
It is very obvious what the illusionists and alchemists (media and government) want me to believe and feel about most everything – what isn’t so clear is “why” is any one particular view point so important?
Cui bono?
dana
January 31, 2012 at 10:50 am
I pretty much agree, I even posted along these lines awhile back about how we are manipulated with edge social issues to keep us from critically examining what else is going … basically the fact that the rich are stealing everything. —Doug
unitedcats
January 31, 2012 at 10:58 am
We are not just manipulated – we are flat out lied to.
What do you suppose the number of people involved in this incident was? The Politicians, the PR firm, the girl and her family – and who has been brought to justice? The more they get away with the more embolden they become.
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/cohen1.html
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/incubatorlie.html
dana
January 31, 2012 at 3:51 pm
Isn’t it more likely that the whole “inside conspiracy” is rather the work of a panicked american imagination? in opinion, most human beings do not have the motivation or discipline to exercise something so grand. few in history have that kind of insight. certainly no public official has that kind of bravado to pull off protecting his self image, let alone engineer such a dramatic display.
Rather it is in my opinion that two aircraft hit the world trade centers and the pentagon. causing an equal and opposite [emotional] reaction. and our publicly elected leaders either took advantage to serve their best interests, or ours.
A decade later we are still analyzing an event that no longer has any effect in our lives. its as if the ship hit the iceberg and the diners are still arguing what really happened as the water pours into the dining room. few if any have gone for the lifeboats.
All in all, when shit hits the fan, do something about it or get comfortable. a beer sounds nice at those times
Ryan
January 31, 2012 at 6:53 pm
Well put, I essentially agree. There was a conspiracy of opportunity to hype and take advantage of the 9/11 attack for ideological reasons, the so called New American Century. It’s already failed in all but imagination, but dreams take a long and painful time to die when empires get to the size of America’s. JMO. —Doug
unitedcats
January 31, 2012 at 11:39 pm
Yes, I have no further desire to analyze 9/11, it serves less than no purpose. As far as Dana’s comment,well aware of the “incubator babies” propaganda that served to dispel US opposition to the first war with Saddam, as well as obscure the fact that the Kuwaitis had done everything in their power to goad Saddam into attacking them. Our difference is semantic, manipulate to me is a much stronger word than lie, it means carefully crafted lies designed to change public opinion, like the example so cited. —Doug
unitedcats
January 31, 2012 at 7:45 pm
I came to terms with 9/11 – I literally found the words – the terms – that described the impact that event had on me.
Actually the terms were suggested by the 9/11 committee itself – I had a failure of imagination. (They are a clever bunch.) I had not appreciated how grand the chess board truly was.
Evil exists and little within the power structure is as it seems. The lies and manipulations – the control – is ongoing, ever present and overarching. MSM is the stage master.
Let’s all sit back and see the evil of the Israeli / Iran war unfold – the drum beats get louder and louder and yet America’s sheeple stand around confused and unsure – not really onboard, not really understanding, not even sure if they’re allowed to disagree with Israel.
What will it take, what Iranian atrocity will erupt, how many Americans will have to die to get the rest of American to support WW III?
Cui bono?
dana
February 1, 2012 at 5:22 am
I blog about the madness of the whole “confrontation” with Iran regularly, it may very well lead to the war that is the end of us all. If “modern” America’s flying death squads can be called waging war. —Doug
unitedcats
February 1, 2012 at 8:01 am
So many interesting comments.
Fuckaroo! Hilarious I have not heard that word before. So many applications…
There is the slightest possibility that the US government knew of the attacks immediately prior to their inception but that is as far as is reasonably possible in terms of a conspiracy. And it’s bloody unlikely due to how it eventually played out.
I understand why you chose to discuss this absurdity Douglas…it is infuriating and the conspiracists are so completely wrong that it offends every molecule of your being. I understand completely. I was in CA at the time of the attacks and I will never ever forget. I have goose bumps right now thinking of it. I still cannot watch any footage although I saw plenty at the time. That so many people could die horrible deaths as the result of American political zeal is an insult to everyone who died (which is not to say that it doesn’t happen every day). But those political zealots were not of this soil or this mentality.
People want to believe it is a conspiracy because they understand a conspiracy. A conspiracy can become entirely consistent (over time and after many discussions) with their own reality, with their own experiences. They will manipulate the facts to achieve consistency with their perceptions. It enables them to understand a situation that is not comprehensible in terms of their own existence, their expectations, and their identity. In most cases it is a situation that frightens them on a level beneath conscious thought. It is ironic that the reality they construct is far more frightening than the reality that exists and brought about the situation in the first place.
0penb00k
April 24, 2012 at 10:24 pm