Doug's Darkworld

War, Science, and Philosophy in a Fractured World.

Marginal Thoughts

with 8 comments

I actually really appreciate the comments I get in here, they’ve really helped refine my view of the world and how people think. And it’s not unknown for one to make me re-evaluate my position, though the opposite is more common. And the comments come in for years on some posts, someone new wanders across a post and feels the need to add their two cents. And it’s also not unusual for a comment to inspire me to add codicils, caveats, and explanations to my original post. Which is sorta where this is headed.

An esteemed commenter the the other day claimed I was “debunking” Ancient Alien claims, though to be fair I believe his comment was more tongue-in-cheek than not. I don’t think of myself as a debunker, in fact I find most skeptics as annoying as most true believers. Sometimes though, stuff is bunk. And if it’s bunk, it should be called so. And “La Puerta de Hayu Marka” is bunk. One of the most fascinating things about it though was the fact that any number of Ancient Aliens web sites had simply copied and passed the exact same drivel without any attempt to verify it. And one wonders why I tend to be cautious about tales involving paranormal or supernatural events?

In fact, go back and look at the picture of the stargate. That picture is touted as being in this remote location. Then look at the ground in front of the “stargate.” Um, a lot of people obviously wander around there, it’s a well trampled as a typical high school beer drinking spot in the woods. And then there’s the stone wall in the foreground. Um, pretty obviously not ancient. Granted I missed all this at first pass myself, and bought the “remote location” nonsense. Just goes to show ya, something can be as plain as the nose on one’s face, but it can still be missed.

Moving right along, comments continue to be left on my Dyatlov Pass Incident post. And I’ve noticed a common theme. People who want to discredit my hypothesis, or promote their own, pick and chose the details they think are important to bolster their case. And frequently focus on details that “discredit” my hypothesis. And they can be very very serious about this. And oddly enough, I observe pretty much the same pattern in people touting belief in God or promoting the conspiracy theory of their choice. Which sadly reinforces what scientists have discovered the past few decades, most people aren’t interested in actual debate, they are simply arguing their side of the issue. If one picks and chooses what details are important, any theory can be supported.

Granted not a terribly astute or original observation, and by no means am I generalizing it to all people. And I’m sure I’m guilty of the same, at least to some degree. On the other hand, I don’t seem to reach the firm conclusions (in most cases) that others seem to reach. And I am usually happy to concede that I might be wrong. Or at the very least am open to new argument. So back to Dyatlov. In this case despite the plethora of comments, I still think the case has a perfectly mundane explanation. Some combination of panic, hypothermia, and paradoxical undressing. Maybe triggered by an avalanche, maybe triggered by some sort of military test gone awry. My last point here is regarding the comment about some of them being very experienced snow campers. Um, so what? Experienced people may be less likely to make mistakes than novices, but every day experienced people make fatal mistakes. Hell, I’ll write a blog post about it someday, ten fatal mistakes made by people who should have known better.

Lastly, a case where comments have made me re-evaluate my position. That would be the Moorgate Tube Crash. Upon further reflection and comments, maybe the explanation is even more mundane than suicide. Maybe the driver just fell asleep. People can and do fall asleep sitting up with their eyes open, I can attest to that from my guard duty days in the service. It’s also possible that the driver was just really lost in thought and distracted, it happens.

In conclusion, there is no conclusion.

(The above image is claimed as Fair Use under US copyright law. Credit and copyright:  Nathan Alexander, Wikipedia. It’s a sailing rock on a dry lake bed in Death Valley. It’s called a sailing rock, because, well, from the tracks, one can see that it has moved. This was one of the more mundane Earth mysteries of my youth. Mundane in that while it hadn’t been explained, it was hard to see why supernatural forces were pushing rocks around. And when scientists investigated, they discovered the rocks only moved when the surface was wet and there was a good wind. And the rocks always moved in the direction the wind was blowing. Case closed, on to the next one. Maybe the little known case of the boulders rolling uphill in Scotland.)


Written by unitedcats

March 15, 2012 at 5:18 pm

8 Responses

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  1. It’s a little known fact that it was Gen Douglas Macarthur that actual invited the Japanese fishing fleet to the southern oceans to hunt for whales to supplement the national stock of edible protein after the second world war.

    That was a long time ago (65 years), however Japan has managed their fishing in a responsible way and no whale species have become extinct or near to extinct in that time.

    In that time Australian shooters have killed an estimated 120,000,000 kangaroos and wallabies. Certainly it has been officially recorded that 73,000,000 have been killed since 1986. at least 7,000,000 joeys at foot have been left to starve as their mothers have been shot.
    Kangaroos are mammals just like whales and seals. The brutality shown to the animal on our coat of arms is far greater than the Japanese whaling or annual seal slaughter.

    I must remind you that the meat from the kangaroo slaughter goes to feeding our greatly adored domestic dogs. Also some skins are tanned and sold to Japanese and Chinese tourists. The soft furry skins and the scrotums of the young wallaroos are sort after particularly.

    At least five species are on the verge of extinction, Red Kangaroos, Western Grey Kangaroos, Eastern Grey Kangaroos, Wallaroos and Euros in Queensland. The number of these animals is down to 3 kangaroos per Km2.

    The quota , cull , call it what you will, is sanctioned and controlled by the state governments and also the fe(de)ral government.

    The Japanese government has been labelled as liars because they say that the whaling is for scientific purposes. However our governments determine and sanction the killing of our national animal and then let the meat go to feeding dogs and allow shooters and businesses to make a lot of money from the process. That to me seems a bit dishonest also.

    We mostly choose to eat beef, pork, chicken and lamb which are penned and caged and even mutilated in the case of sheep. I am not a vegetarian but some of these facts need to be brought into the discussion that centres on the Japanese and their heartless whaling.

    Many Australians are very willing to condemn the Japanese whaling industry and yet we hear very little about our very own kangaroo killing industry.

    I would like you to ask your listeners if they feel strongly about the killing of whales….and….. do they feel just as strongly about the huge number of kangaroos that will be killed here in Australia. (at least 4 million this year)

    I, personally am a fence sitter on whaling. It seems to me that the Japanese are doing a fairly good job on managing the catch in a conservative way. It is certainly no worse than the way we manage our national animal.

    By far the greatest number whales that have been killed is that of the whale oil industry that was based in Nantucket in the USA in the mid 1800’s… (about 500,000 per year) …. That is about one tenth of the number of kangaroos that we are killing here in Australia this year.

    I await your comments…

    Nick Rienstra

    Nick Rienstra

    March 15, 2012 at 7:28 pm

    • I fail to see how this relates to my post in any way. That’s my only comment for now, lol.


      March 16, 2012 at 9:48 am

      • You (Doug) commented on whales, Nick R commented on whales. very small relationship of whales. The Zen Master says WTF is with that.

        Wade O Kane

        March 16, 2012 at 10:50 am

  2. To Doug: Could it be that they were attacked by a grizzly bear? If a bear attacked that could explain the ripped tents, and if it swatted the four people found separate, they’d have crushing injuries, but not obvious wounds. The five that died of hypothermia might have also run after the bear attack, and then died of hypothermia. I lived in Alaska 25 years, and near Fairbanks some young people were fishing on a lake shore of a park near Fairbanks. All 4 or 5 of them died of hypothermia. Its surmised that the bear came along, and they went into the +50F water to escape the bear, the bear lingered, and hypothermia set in. Better to freeze than be bear dinner….

    Simple explanations seem best. OTOH unusual for a bear to be out and about mid winter. Are there moose there? More people have died being stomped by moose than killed by bears. If a moose attacked the group, (calf in danger scenario) some could die of blunt force trauma, and the others die the same as the bear attack.

    The article says “experienced” skiers. I wonder what made them considered “Experienced”. Once while going hunting on the upper Kobuk river with an 80 year old Eskimo, we met some Kayak “floaters”, that is people that were dropped off by air at Walker Lake and were traveling down the River to be picked up at Kiana. We found these seemingly “experienced” floaters camped in the middle of a large gravel bar, while 30 knot winds blasted the tents with sand. If the river came up, they’d have been in a pickle. We on the other had camped nearby among 60 foot spruce trees, 4 feet above high water line. Nary a breeze down at tent level. The Eskimo I was with was truly “experienced”, while the floaters were not.

    Wade O Kane

    March 15, 2012 at 9:20 pm

  3. Hehe, “in conclusion, there is no conclusion”…..nice, thats how it usually it goes huh lol, and debunking is just another word for proving. Have a good one Doug!


    March 16, 2012 at 6:42 am

  4. Hi Doug, I may be the “debunking” writer. (Off to the side, I am a female and my comment was tongue-in-cheek to some degree.) I just have a deep seated desire to know that their is intelligent life somewhere in the Universe since I can’t find much of it here on our planet.
    I do agree that calling someone an expert is a lesson in relativity.

    Lee A Whittaker

    March 16, 2012 at 6:55 am

    • I’d dearly love to find evidence of alien intelligence myself, I was fascinated with UFOs and von Daniken as a teenager. I’m still fascinated by them, but shocked at the poor scholarship and shoddy investigative techniques that seem to pervade the field. I will continue to look into whatever evidence I come across though, at least there are some curious anecdotal reports. The Nuremberg UFOs fall into that category.


      March 16, 2012 at 9:53 am

  5. […] readers, one of them has apparently concluded that whales should be the next topic, inspired by my last post. I don’t see what, if anything, the post had to do with whales. I’m guessing it was […]

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